Comments on: The Lutheran Church and sexuality (1): it all boils down to one word

By: Bioethike » Blog Archive » Which way, ELCA? Assembly votes on sexuality Friday

Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:39:34 +0000

[...] Sexuality: Gift and Trust is neither biblical, nor is it confessional. Heck, it mentions the word “sexuality” 123 times, but the word “Bible” only 3 times. As I’ve argued before, it is the last, gasping breath of the Twentieth Century Project, [...]

By: Bioethike » Blog Archive » Ugly Americans and their uglier sexuality

Bioethike » Blog Archive » Ugly Americans and their uglier sexuality — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:15:29 +0000

[...] more-than-unfortunate verbiage remained in a document passed by thie UN group. This goes to what I’ve cautioned before about Lutherans using the word “sexuality”. It is word freighted with all sorts of sin [...]

By: Robert C. Baker

Robert C. Baker — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:54:14 +0000

Hi Rik–
I agree. We shouldn’t limit our vocabulary to “Bible words,” otherwise what would we call a “blog”?
As a former member of the ELCA, I join you in hoping that more of our brothers and sisters will join us in conversation at Bioethike. All of us need diligently to inquire into the ideas underlying Church documents. My underlying thesis about “sexuality” is that many Lutherans frequently operate with a post-Kantian empirical epistomology foreign to the Bible, Luther, and the Lutheran Confessions–and don’t even know it. They believe that what they’re saying or writing is Lutheran, even though it’s goobledegook. That makes it very sad for our laity.
Robert

By: Rik

Rik — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:13:33 +0000

Thank you for an insightful, helpful blog! If only more in the ELCA could read what you have written.
I do not believe that we should restrict our language to words used in the Bible (“Trinity”, for instance, is not there but is a most useful word considering the teachings throughout the Bible of the relations between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit–three “persons” yet one (echad) God). S
hould a church body approach everything like ecclesiastical sociologists and psychologists? To be sure, where we can learn from these sciences, their is nothing wrong with gleaning from them. Yet the Bible says, “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind…” (Romans 12:2 NIV)
When a church body conforms to the evil and corrupt world in an attempt to try to be relevent, it is indeed a sad day. Yes, the love of Christ should cause us to desire to reach all people despite what sins ensnare them, but we are not to endorse sin. Are we not to be transformed? How can we be salt and light to the world when we succumb to the same thoughts practices that we have been rescued from by our most gracious God? Verse 2 continues, “Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.” “Perfect” relates not to what societal ethics distills as “perfect,” but rather what God defines as perfect. No improvement can be made on God’s standards!

Yes, another sexuality statement out of Chicago. How I wish they could start with Holy Scripture and go from there, rather than beginning with culture and the latest trends in society. I think if we back up a verse, Romans 12:1 is as good as any place to begin a sexuality study: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship.” (NIV) Or has God’s revealed Word gone out of style in some sectors. May it never be so! May God have mercy on any “church” that considers itself more intelligent than God himself. Kyrie Eleison!

By: Nick

Nick — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:49:23 +0000

Kamilla and I belong to the same list and I’m happy I stopped by. Good post.

By: Robert C. Baker

Robert C. Baker — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 02:48:02 +0000

You’re welcome, Kamilla. Hope to hear from you again soon!

By: Kamilla

Kamilla — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:25:10 +0000

I just found this blog courtesy of a friend. Thank you for doing this tough work.

Kamilla

By: Robert C. Baker

Robert C. Baker — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:34:14 +0000

Thanks, Rob. You pose an interesting question. Although our vocabulary need not be limited to words found in the Bible, Scripture’s teaching on marriage and family does need to permeate and influence how we go about things. Have you considered “betrothal”?

By: Rob Olson

Rob Olson — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:04:06 +0000

With two teenage daughters, I have also been looking for “dating” in the Holy Scriptures, and so far, I have not had much luck. It seems that marriage is taking a backseat to this particular form of “sexuality.”

Where do these ideas come from? I have been asking this question as I have recently pondered the words of Pastors Wilken and Stuckwunsch, who in the past few months have asked some good questions:

Pastor Wilken: “Are Christian Parents Leading Their Children into Undue Temptation by Encouraging Them to Wait on Marriage?”
http://www.issuesetc.org/podcast/Show48090308H1S2.mp3

Pastor Stuckwisch: “What This World Needs is less celibacy and more chastity.” http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=75712241182&h=d-Epu&u=yOamF&ref=mf

I am wondering if the Church would be better if the word “dating” were also expunged from our discourse. For the most part, it seems like a very broken modern innovation.

Blessings.

Rob Olson
Hillsdale, MI

By: Rob Olson

Rob Olson — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:43:45 +0000

What a wonderful blog, pastor! Thank you so much.

May God bless you and your future posts!

Rob Olson
Hillsdale, Michigan